OK, I've finally spent some time thinking about immigration, and I have some questions for those more informed than myself.
It seems that the biggest complaint I hear is that these people are a drain on out school and medical system. Here goes- aren't all people who don't own property drains on our education system? My dad bithced for the first 18 years of my life about apartment dwellers. My argument to him was always that the owner of the apartment complex had to pay property tax and therefore those people weren't leaches (or at least as leachy) as they first appeared. I would say the same thing is true of immigrants. I hear you - but Erik, they life 5 families to one apartment. Yes, some do. I've never met any, but I'm sure some do. I would say that this is minor. Please convince me I'm wrong.
The medical system is even more intriguing. I've heard estimates that between 10 and 13 million illegals are here. Let's be generous and say 15 million - 0.5% of the U.S. population. I would bet that countries like France and the U.K. have similar numbers. They may not be Mexicans, but in London I heard complaints about illegals there too. Here we go. These two countries have national medicine. They pay exponentially less for health care than we do. REVIEW- they have the same percentage of illegals (I would guess) and they pay LESS for health care. In fact, my student there on a visitors visa last year got hurt in the parade. She had 4 hours in a hospital, consult with a doctor, X-Ray, cast, crutches, all the bells and whistles. She paid $0.00. She was a drain on their healthcare system. There medicine is still cheaper. I hear you here to- but Erik, their medicine sucks. They have lines and get told when they can see a doctor. EVERY English person I spoke to loved their system. And, by the way, my insurance company tells me when and what services I am allowed to have... Maybe illegals aren't the problem here either...
You want to know what I think? I think we resent them because that's what we always do. Our great-grandparents resented the Irish and Italians. My parents resented blacks and Cubans. We resent Mexicans. Why? Because they're different. they don't speak our language. We don't understand them.
The last thing I hear is that many of them are criminals. Are more of them criminals than those of us already here? I doubt it as that we have the largest percentage of citizens in jail of any country in the world...
I think the solutions is easier immigration. Anyone who wants to come to the U.S. should be welcome- as a matter of morality and economy. These people help make our economy go, why not let them? To come in, all you have to do is register. I hear you again- Erik, they'll still work under the table! No they won't. Not if you position a cop at every QT at 6 am, and in every new neighborhood going up, and everywhere grass needs to be mowed, and in every orange grove. Let's take the "Minutemen Brigade" and get them to help stop citizens from hiring people under the table.
I doubt anyone will agree with me here, but I wanted you all to hear the other side.
One more question. How many illegals do you all know? I bet Kirkdiggity will win... but I'd like to know how much this impacts us in the real world. You know, the world outside of talk radio...
for the record. I have met 0 illegals- ever.
ML,
E
P.S. Let's let the tax cuts expire. I'll pay my extra $80 dollars a year and Bill Gates can pay his extra $100,000, and we'll be closer to a balanced budget than yesterday.
It seems that the biggest complaint I hear is that these people are a drain on out school and medical system. Here goes- aren't all people who don't own property drains on our education system? My dad bithced for the first 18 years of my life about apartment dwellers. My argument to him was always that the owner of the apartment complex had to pay property tax and therefore those people weren't leaches (or at least as leachy) as they first appeared. I would say the same thing is true of immigrants. I hear you - but Erik, they life 5 families to one apartment. Yes, some do. I've never met any, but I'm sure some do. I would say that this is minor. Please convince me I'm wrong.
The medical system is even more intriguing. I've heard estimates that between 10 and 13 million illegals are here. Let's be generous and say 15 million - 0.5% of the U.S. population. I would bet that countries like France and the U.K. have similar numbers. They may not be Mexicans, but in London I heard complaints about illegals there too. Here we go. These two countries have national medicine. They pay exponentially less for health care than we do. REVIEW- they have the same percentage of illegals (I would guess) and they pay LESS for health care. In fact, my student there on a visitors visa last year got hurt in the parade. She had 4 hours in a hospital, consult with a doctor, X-Ray, cast, crutches, all the bells and whistles. She paid $0.00. She was a drain on their healthcare system. There medicine is still cheaper. I hear you here to- but Erik, their medicine sucks. They have lines and get told when they can see a doctor. EVERY English person I spoke to loved their system. And, by the way, my insurance company tells me when and what services I am allowed to have... Maybe illegals aren't the problem here either...
You want to know what I think? I think we resent them because that's what we always do. Our great-grandparents resented the Irish and Italians. My parents resented blacks and Cubans. We resent Mexicans. Why? Because they're different. they don't speak our language. We don't understand them.
The last thing I hear is that many of them are criminals. Are more of them criminals than those of us already here? I doubt it as that we have the largest percentage of citizens in jail of any country in the world...
I think the solutions is easier immigration. Anyone who wants to come to the U.S. should be welcome- as a matter of morality and economy. These people help make our economy go, why not let them? To come in, all you have to do is register. I hear you again- Erik, they'll still work under the table! No they won't. Not if you position a cop at every QT at 6 am, and in every new neighborhood going up, and everywhere grass needs to be mowed, and in every orange grove. Let's take the "Minutemen Brigade" and get them to help stop citizens from hiring people under the table.
I doubt anyone will agree with me here, but I wanted you all to hear the other side.
One more question. How many illegals do you all know? I bet Kirkdiggity will win... but I'd like to know how much this impacts us in the real world. You know, the world outside of talk radio...
for the record. I have met 0 illegals- ever.
ML,
E
P.S. Let's let the tax cuts expire. I'll pay my extra $80 dollars a year and Bill Gates can pay his extra $100,000, and we'll be closer to a balanced budget than yesterday.
8 Comments:
OK...some questions for you then...
1. Does it matter to you that they are here illegally? Does it matter that they broke the law to be here?
2. Do you honestly believe this is a racial/ethnic issue?
3. If you're so concerned about everyone giving back their money the government so graciously returned, why didn't you address the issue of these immigrants paying their federal and state taxes?
4. Have you ever written a check to the federal government for your taxes? No, I don't mean if they didn't steal enough prior to April 15. I mean, have you never had taxes withheld and written a check for your taxes every three months?
Some comments:
1. There is obviously a stereotype that the Republicans/Right/Conservatives are anti-immigration. I can't speak for everyone else, but I can tell you that I'm all for legal immigration. I think immigrants are some of the only ones who actually appreciate what America is. Lord knows not many people who were born here do.
The problem is not that they have "immigrated" here; the problem is it's been done illegally. Why is this ok?
I honestly believe that they come here to abuse and take advantage of a system that is very broken. I personally think that most come here not to be a part of America, but to bring Mexico here. When's the last time you drove through Doraville, Chamblee, and around Gwinnett Place Mall? Where is the evidence that they are assimilating themselves into our culture and society? Don't give me this "America is a melting pot of all cultures." America has an official language - it's english. I'm all for them coming here and adding their mix to the pot, but I'm not in favor of these subcultures within ours where safety is a concern and they cannot be helped by police, fire and emts because they can't read the business names on the signs.
I called four schools Thursday morning. Three of them gave me the option of spanish instructions. There is a problem here.
2. Yes, I have known many illegals through my teaching. I once had a flute player who literally swam across the Rio Grande with her family to be here. I only knew her because they made it as far as Atlanta on their third try.
3. You have a point about illegals living in Apartment complexes are paying property taxes. But, I can tell you through personal experience that there are 2-8 families in rental properties all across the Atl metro area. Why is there no crack down on this? I don't know.
I don't know any illegals. I'm enjoying reading the debate.
The only illegal I know works as a cop stationed to the QT on Roswell Road between the hours of 5-7 AM.
Seriously, you two should start your own "point/counterpoint" news-type show and call it "A&E" Keep it up, it's informative and good reading.
I was thinking about law breaking as I brushed my teeth this morning. I realized that I too have broken the laws of this great land.
1. I got head in GA before 1996.
2. I had sex before marriage.
3. I ate chicken with a fork in the city limits of Gainesville.
4. I may fudge my taxes a little bit...
OK, 1 and 2 are true, 3 is just here to make a point. 4 is true, unless you work for the IRS, then it's just a joke.
Some laws aren't needed or inforced. We only point out the ones we care about. Ones that benefit us seem to be OK...
I do believe for many that this is about race. If we were flooded with Brits I don't think anyone would say a word.
you are correct. Integration to our culture is slow. It takes a least one generation for them to become lazy and tkae shit for granted...
E
Why don't you just come out and say "Our boarders should be wide open...let everyone in?" It seems you've been beating around the bush and not directly saying it. Is this what you want? If this IS what you want, what percentage of the country do you think shares your opinion?
WinD has three students who brag about the fact that their parents have been deported several times. So I guess I know some, indirectly.
Now about your tax statements...don’t tell me that the rich do not pay taxes. What percentage of your income goes to taxes? I'm a nerd; the most recent Golf Digest had a break down of what Tiger paid last year. These are estimates of what I can remember:
Prize Money: 8.5 million
Endorsements: 6.5 Million
Total Income: 15 Million
Federal Tax: 6.8 Million
Various State Taxes: 2.1 Million
That is over half!
I am still formulating my opinion on the immigration issue. Like we talked about Friday, this is very polarizing. I do know this; they are here illegally and that is hard to argue.
After watching the news coverage of the protests, I had a thought. Why didn't I see an American flag? I saw tons of Mexican flags, yet no American flags. Many protest signs were written in Spanish. Thanks to Dora I could read some of them. Want to live here...fine! However, you have to be a part of our culture. If I decided to move to Japan, I would have no expectations of everyone changing to accommodate me.
After we talked (Brian) I looked at more coverage and did notice quite a few US flags. Maybe the immigrant tone is changing...
I do think that open borders are the solution. Not open like anyone can walk across anywhere, but open like if you want to come in and are willing to register, then welcome aboard.
I am not, however, stupid. I realize that very few people in the US would agree with me here. I would also like to point out that in 1954 most Americans (at least that I know) wanted separate schools. Just because the majority of people agree with you doesn't make you right.
E
Okay, so in UK/France the heath care costs are lower, but what about their taxes??? You're paying for it, just out of a different bucket of money. (N.B. I recognize that the tax rate may not "convince" you this is a bad idea, given your position on rolling back our tax cuts. I'm stating it to point out that someone in fact is paying for it).
And if you want to talk about countries with harsh immigration laws, look no further than your favorite, socialized EU state! They are FAR more strict on their immigration controls than the US, partly because they can't afford to take any more people onto their social services roles! Unemployment is 2-3 times higher than it is here, because people don't have an incentive to work. I saw a news item from France where in a survey soem high percentage (half? 2/3? 3/4?) said their "dream" was to become some kind of civil service worker who works 35 hours a week and can basically never be fired.
That is the kind of system I would argue that you're advocating. Perhaps not directly, but I believe this is the type of system will end up with if we start down this path.
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